Richard Two Elk, Headman of The Lap Dog Society guest appearance on Jerry Springer show...

[g***@yahoo.co.uk]

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?

jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)

[Monica]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.

A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.

I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.

just my opinion
jumpybird

[Monica]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our  selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I was new in the Smokehouse (That's our Traditional Religion) I
used to go visit the elders and I would bring coffee, sugar, laundry
soap etc. I used to bring a big box of stuff they needed and didn't
need. The lady liked chocolates so I would throw in different types of
candy that she would share with her little grandsons. The old man was
diabetic and I would bring him cases of diet coke and little cans of
orange juice for when he had low blood sugar. It's good to think of
stuff like that. We need to think of helping each other not just
ourselves. Last summer a kid knocked on my door and said he would cut
my lawn for $10. I couldn't afford to pay him 10 and buy gas too. Last
summer my lawn was badly neglected because of the price of gas. How do
we introduce or keep up our Traditional values. White man values are
seeping in real quick.

[b***@gmail.com]

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our  selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I was new in the Smokehouse (That's our Traditional Religion) I
used to go visit the elders and I would bring coffee, sugar, laundry
soap etc. I used to bring a big box of stuff they needed and didn't
need. The lady liked chocolates so I would throw in different types of
candy that she would share with her little grandsons. The old man was
diabetic and I would bring him cases of diet coke and little cans of
orange juice for when he had low blood sugar. It's good to think of
stuff like that. We need to think of helping each other not just
ourselves. Last summer a kid knocked on my door and said he would cut
my lawn for $10. I couldn't afford to pay him 10 and buy gas too. Last
summer my lawn was badly neglected because of the price of gas. How do
we introduce or keep up our Traditional values. White man values are
seeping in real quick.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Monica,
If you were a REAL NDN your lawn would be cut and you would not be
suffer'n so. You do reap what you sew my dear!
Now I hate to brag but, I get deer meat,fish, fruits and veggies,poi
and flowers
to make lei's and sometimes even lei's brought to me for no reason at
all. The
list goes on but I will spare you.
Traditionally, people do look out for one another here. do on to
others and
so on. If you are "pelau" don't expect to be treated to the best fish.
Or to
be lei'd any time soon.
Instead of sitting on your fanny typing lies about people you could be
teaching
REAL TRADITIONAL VALUES. How do you expect kids to learn if they don't
see
traditional values being practiced? Just how traditional is it to
behave like you do Monica?

[Monica]

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our  selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I was new in the Smokehouse (That's our Traditional Religion) I
used to go visit the elders and I would bring coffee, sugar, laundry
soap etc. I used to bring a big box of stuff they needed and didn't
need. The lady liked chocolates so I would throw in different types of
candy that she would share with her little grandsons. The old man was
diabetic and I would bring him cases of diet coke and little cans of
orange juice for when he had low blood sugar. It's good to think of
stuff like that. We need to think of helping each other not just
ourselves. Last summer a kid knocked on my door and said he would cut
my lawn for $10. I couldn't afford to pay him 10 and buy gas too. Last
summer my lawn was badly neglected because of the price of gas. How do
we introduce or keep up our Traditional values. White man values are
seeping in real quick.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Monica,
If you were a REAL NDN your lawn would be cut and you would not be
suffer'n so. You do reap what you sew my dear!
Now I hate to brag but, I get deer meat,fish, fruits and veggies,poi
and flowers
to make lei's and sometimes even lei's brought to me for no reason at
all. The
list goes on but I will spare you.
Traditionally, people do look out for one another here. do on to
others and
so on. If you are "pelau" don't expect to be treated to the best fish.
Or to
be lei'd any time soon.
Instead of sitting on your fanny typing lies about people you could be
teaching
REAL TRADITIONAL VALUES. How do you expect kids to learn if they don't
see
traditional values being practiced? Just how traditional is it to
behave like you do Monica?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You are white. You can say nothing about real Traditional values or
what a real Indian is. That is very racist of you. You are white. You
are the cause of the destruction of our Traditional values. You cannot
aborb that through the vagina. Just ask Debbie. That was her statement
to Antoinette. It goes for all you white women.

[~American Indian~]

Lisa is correct in the question to you Monica...
Don't try and change it around...Because when you do..YOUR RACIAL side
shines..!!
You were to busy keeping up with the Joneses to get *Traditional*...let a
little of *Tradition* seep into your being..AND LIVE..!!!

WG

^^^^^^^

Post by b***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole
american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and
scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to
avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world
setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I was new in the Smokehouse (That's our Traditional Religion) I
used to go visit the elders and I would bring coffee, sugar, laundry
soap etc. I used to bring a big box of stuff they needed and didn't
need. The lady liked chocolates so I would throw in different types of
candy that she would share with her little grandsons. The old man was
diabetic and I would bring him cases of diet coke and little cans of
orange juice for when he had low blood sugar. It's good to think of
stuff like that. We need to think of helping each other not just
ourselves. Last summer a kid knocked on my door and said he would cut
my lawn for $10. I couldn't afford to pay him 10 and buy gas too. Last
summer my lawn was badly neglected because of the price of gas. How do
we introduce or keep up our Traditional values. White man values are
seeping in real quick.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Monica,
If you were a REAL NDN your lawn would be cut and you would not be
suffer'n so. You do reap what you sew my dear!
Now I hate to brag but, I get deer meat,fish, fruits and veggies,poi
and flowers
to make lei's and sometimes even lei's brought to me for no reason at
all. The
list goes on but I will spare you.
Traditionally, people do look out for one another here. do on to
others and
so on. If you are "pelau" don't expect to be treated to the best fish.
Or to
be lei'd any time soon.
Instead of sitting on your fanny typing lies about people you could be
teaching
REAL TRADITIONAL VALUES. How do you expect kids to learn if they don't
see
traditional values being practiced? Just how traditional is it to
behave like you do Monica?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

You are white. You can say nothing about real Traditional values or
what a real Indian is. That is very racist of you. You are white. You
are the cause of the destruction of our Traditional values. You cannot
aborb that through the vagina. Just ask Debbie. That was her statement
to Antoinette. It goes for all you white women.

[~American Indian~]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Monica

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?

We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

When I was new in the Smokehouse (That's our Traditional Religion) I
used to go visit the elders and I would bring coffee, sugar, laundry
soap etc. I used to bring a big box of stuff they needed and didn't
need. The lady liked chocolates so I would throw in different types of
candy that she would share with her little grandsons. The old man was
diabetic and I would bring him cases of diet coke and little cans of
orange juice for when he had low blood sugar. It's good to think of
stuff like that. We need to think of helping each other not just
ourselves. Last summer a kid knocked on my door and said he would cut
my lawn for $10. I couldn't afford to pay him 10 and buy gas too. Last
summer my lawn was badly neglected because of the price of gas. How do
we introduce or keep up our Traditional values. White man values are
seeping in real quick.
^^^^^^^

So..to be real *Traditional*..you *cut grass*...???
Maybe it was *cut* because whitey down the street cut his..!!!
What a hypocrite attitude some have..init

WG

^^^^^^^

[Hope]

Post by j***@gmail.com
We had this issue once. We had a ceremony that lasted days. We all
donated food cards from the local market to pay for the food. We all
pitched in to the couple who hosted us to pay for wood and cleaning
out the septic tank. Basically, we covered their lives with all they
needed while we were there and left them in a positive setting
afterwards.
A while later some friends from that time had a major accident. They
couldn't afford to keep going on limited cash and were fighting the
insurance. We all pitched in and helped with legal fees (wasn't much).
I took out a lot of food for them.
I was taught that family never goes hungry. I was taught to give what
I had if I could. And in the case of those "special people" that help
us in ceremony, we all pitch in. My family hasn't let our  selves or
our people down yet. Better that we all get through it together than
for one of us to have it all.
just my opinion
jumpybird

And a good opinion it is--in MY opinion. :-) I wish we could all live
with those values. What a different world it would be!

[~American Indian~]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised. What do we do about those who steal and or charge for
ceremonies? Is it ever ethical to charge or take money for ceremonies.
In the old days we gave gifts blankets, tobacco, from what ever your
Tribal custom was. Today we have light bills, rent or housing
payments, water. We ahve to buy food and gas. I heard of a medicine
man that said that he had a closet full of blankets in the closet and
a stack of bills to pay. How do we reconcile those odl beliefs and
customs with todays economy?
^^^^^^^

BECAUSE *YOU* WANNABE DA BIG DINK..!!!!!

WG

^^^^^^^

[F***@hotmail.com]

Post by Monica
This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised.

ZACKLEE!!!!!!!

Thank You MAD MOO...

here...let me help you with that...

cvareful IF ya tryin' sit down...

there ain't No Chairz...

SO...back to da threads Original Question...

What dates are you booked in for, And...when do ya go on Dr. Phil?

lookin' forward to yer ANSWER...

Hee Hee Hee

[Monica]

Post by F***@hotmail.com

Post by Monica
This started out such a good thread. Good questions were asked and
raised.

ZACKLEE!!!!!!!
Thank You MAD MOO...
here...let me help you with that...
cvareful IF ya tryin' sit down...
there ain't No Chairz...
SO...back to da threads Original Question...
What dates are you booked in for, And...when do ya go on Dr. Phil?
lookin' forward to yer ANSWER...
Hee Hee Hee

I think I'll show him your posts. Especially your last one, what was
it about him being a broken human being. You sure got a lot to answer
to him for. I think you will be charged with perjury. I think he'll
kick your butt when he gets out.

Beep! Beep!

[~American Indian~]

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?

jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)

^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...

WG

^^^^^^^

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?

[oldwifetale]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

[Melodious Thunk]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

Perhaps many posters simply agree with what you say, and see little
need to add more.

From one of your previous posts on this thread, for example, I would
only add that it is perfectly respectful to give a medicine person as
much cash as you can afford.

[Hope]

Post by Melodious Thunk

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

Perhaps many posters simply agree with what you say, and see little
need to add more.
From one of your previous posts on this thread, for example, I would
only add that it is perfectly respectful to give a medicine person as
much cash as you can afford.

I agree. I think what is important is that the gift is from the
heart, willingly and thoughtfully offered. I think if it is offered
in good faith, it is likely to be accepted in the same manner.

I would not offer something I had a good idea would offend. But
neither would I offer something I knew was not needed (like another
blanket,) if I could give something that was (like money to help pay
the heating bill.) The end result--the ability to stay warm and
comfortable--is the same. Just the method of achieving the goal has
changed.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Melodious Thunk

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

Perhaps many posters simply agree with what you say, and see little
need to add more.
From one of your previous posts on this thread, for example, I would
only add that it is perfectly respectful to give a medicine person as
much cash as you can afford.

Thanks. I just was taught that food, help, and work were better than
money. We just see money as an issue. Not that it doesn't help, it
does. But work and assistance and food are more of what i was taught.

[Hope]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Melodious Thunk

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

Perhaps many posters simply agree with what you say, and see little
need to add more.
From one of your previous posts on this thread, for example, I would
only add that it is perfectly respectful to give a medicine person as
much cash as you can afford.

Thanks. I just was taught that food, help, and work were better than
money. We just see money as an issue. Not that it doesn't help, it
does. But work and assistance and food are more of what i was taught.

I think it is "easier" for a lot of people to give money than work or
goods. If you have more money than you need, it's easy to give some
and it's not as personal a gift as if you actually share your time and
energy. On the other hand, if the electricity or water is about to be
shut off, sometimes money is the best thing you can give. And
sometimes it is a sacrificial gift, if you're giving up something you
wanted to spend the money on in order to help someone else. Again it
goes back to what's in your heart. That's the *real* gift, IMO. :-)

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Hope

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Melodious Thunk

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by oldwifetale

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Nah, i think that was directed at GRIMUS - that reincarnated Tibetan
monkey of French descent in the UK with the disgusting potty mouth and
an addiction to 'black magick'.

Ok, Thats cool. Just checking. Few people seem to talk to me. In some
way, I get the impression that people think I am some creation/
variation of Monica.

Perhaps many posters simply agree with what you say, and see little
need to add more.
From one of your previous posts on this thread, for example, I would
only add that it is perfectly respectful to give a medicine person as
much cash as you can afford.

Thanks. I just was taught that food, help, and work were better than
money. We just see money as an issue. Not that it doesn't help, it
does. But work and assistance and food are more of what i was taught.

I think it is "easier" for a lot of people to give money than work or
goods.  If you have more money than you need, it's easy to give some
and it's not as personal a gift as if you actually share your time and
energy.  On the other hand, if the electricity or water is about to be
shut off, sometimes money is the best thing you can give.  And
sometimes it is a sacrificial gift, if you're giving up something you
wanted to spend the money on in order to help someone else.  Again it
goes back to what's in your heart.  That's the *real* gift, IMO. :-)

dont get me wrong. i have help collect for bills. the utility company
doesnt accept trade.

[Hope]

Post by j***@gmail.com
dont get me wrong. i have help collect for bills. the utility company
doesnt accept trade.

Boy, ain't that the sad truth! :-(

You know, when we had a big ice storm in '07 and I had no electricity
for 15 days, I learned just how much we take for granted and how
dependent upon the modern system most of us are. Heating and cooking
with a wood stove and using kerosene lamps and candles for light gave
me a whole new respect for our ancestors.

And I still had running water, so I didn't have to go out and haul it
or go outside to the bathroom. I would give up a lot of things before
I'd give up my bathroom. I'll admit it, I'm spoiled. But I've also
spent the last two years gearing up to live without utilities and a
lot of "store bought" things if the situation get really bad, as it
looks like it might.

We're just not gonna be able to sustain the rampant consumerism much
longer. Mother Earth can't keep up with us, and I think she's getting
tired of trying. I worry about the elderly people and the little
ones. I hope we have it in us to work together as you described,
rather than take the selfish road to short-term personal gain, but
long-term chaos.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Hope

Post by j***@gmail.com
dont get me wrong. i have help collect for bills. the utility company
doesnt accept trade.

Boy, ain't that the sad truth! :-(
You know, when we had a big ice storm in '07 and I had no electricity
for 15 days, I learned just how much we take for granted and how
dependent upon the modern system most of us are.  Heating and cooking
with a wood stove and using kerosene lamps and candles for light gave
me a whole new respect for our ancestors.
And I still had running water, so I didn't have to go out and haul it
or go outside to the bathroom.  I would give up a lot of things before
I'd give up my bathroom.  I'll admit it, I'm spoiled.  But I've also
spent the last two years gearing up to live without utilities and a
lot of "store bought" things if the situation get really bad, as it
looks like it might.
We're just not gonna be able to sustain the rampant consumerism much
longer.  Mother Earth can't keep up with us, and I think she's getting
tired of trying. I worry about the elderly people and the little
ones.  I hope we have it in us to work together as you described,
rather than take the selfish road to short-term personal gain, but
long-term chaos.

This seems to be a time when things change. My family's stories talk
of this time. Not sure if I have it right but it sure seems like it.
When I have time I will post about my trip. I saw very happy people
living without they way they have for a long time. Some of the nicest
people I have met. It was good to see that. It brought me back to what
I can easily forget.

[Hope]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Hope

Post by j***@gmail.com
dont get me wrong. i have help collect for bills. the utility company
doesnt accept trade.

Boy, ain't that the sad truth! :-(
You know, when we had a big ice storm in '07 and I had no electricity
for 15 days, I learned just how much we take for granted and how
dependent upon the modern system most of us are.  Heating and cooking
with a wood stove and using kerosene lamps and candles for light gave
me a whole new respect for our ancestors.
And I still had running water, so I didn't have to go out and haul it
or go outside to the bathroom.  I would give up a lot of things before
I'd give up my bathroom.  I'll admit it, I'm spoiled.  But I've also
spent the last two years gearing up to live without utilities and a
lot of "store bought" things if the situation get really bad, as it
looks like it might.
We're just not gonna be able to sustain the rampant consumerism much
longer.  Mother Earth can't keep up with us, and I think she's getting
tired of trying. I worry about the elderly people and the little
ones.  I hope we have it in us to work together as you described,
rather than take the selfish road to short-term personal gain, but
long-term chaos.

This seems to be a time when things change. My family's stories talk
of this time. Not sure if I have it right but it sure seems like it.

A lot of different People from all over the globe have stories and
prophecies about these times it seems. I think we are in for
something big in the next few years.

Post by j***@gmail.com
When I have time I will post about my trip. I saw very happy people
living without they way they have for a long time. Some of the nicest
people I have met. It was good to see that. It brought me back to what
I can easily forget.

Yes. We all forget too easily. The fact that this kind of tribal/
community living you have talked about today still works so well gives
me hope for our future. If any kind of balance is even possible as
"out of whack" as we are now, I think that's the way we're going to
have to do it. The past might be our future.

I look forward to hearing about your trip! It sounds wonderful on all
levels.

[Vladimir]

On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:58:17 -0800 (PST), Hope

Post by Hope
You know, when we had a big ice storm in '07 and I had no electricity
for 15 days, I learned just how much we take for granted and how
dependent upon the modern system most of us are. Heating and cooking
with a wood stove and using kerosene lamps and candles for light gave
me a whole new respect for our ancestors.

Vladimir often wonder how people on high plains, regardless of skin
color, kept warm in 19th century.

No oil furnace
No electricity
No trees for firewood
No coal
No natural gas.

Did they depend on buffalo chips?

Serious question; not trying to be funny.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Vladimir
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:58:17 -0800 (PST), Hope

Post by Hope
You know, when we had a big ice storm in '07 and I had no electricity
for 15 days, I learned just how much we take for granted and how
dependent upon the modern system most of us are.  Heating and cooking
with a wood stove and using kerosene lamps and candles for light gave
me a whole new respect for our ancestors.

Vladimir often wonder how people on high plains, regardless of skin
color, kept warm in 19th century.
No oil furnace
No electricity
No trees for firewood
No coal
No natural gas.
Did they depend on buffalo chips?
Serious question; not trying to be funny.

Well, according to my friends and some of my family, they had fire
wood, and yes, you can burn chips. The issue answering you is that we
have to talk about housing. A teepee is a very efficient chimney where
you build a bed of hot coals over rocks. The Ozan inside acts as a flu
and as a barrier against cold. You can get up a good sweat in one.

Go south and it changes. stuff to burn is easy to find. The animals
give a lot of chips. brush is easy. My family used rocks under coals
to stay warm when we needed. Man can that heat a small room.

[~American Indian~]

NO..It is the name I use for Grimus..over there in Whales,a Nation within
another Nation.
You already have a good name..Why anyone would try and change it..is no
friend of yours(esp. if they forget to ask)

Wayne George
^^^^^^^

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by ~American Indian~
NO..It is the name I use for Grimus..over there in Whales,a Nation within
another Nation.
You already have a good name..Why anyone would try and change it..is no
friend of yours(esp. if they forget to ask)
Wayne George

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?

its all good. My bad. I took a comment out of context. Its hard in a
complex thread.

[~American Indian~]

Post by ~American Indian~
NO..It is the name I use for Grimus..over there in Whales,a Nation within
another Nation.
You already have a good name..Why anyone would try and change it..is no
friend of yours(esp. if they forget to ask)
Wayne George

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and
scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

But your not native either are you?
jumpybird (seriously, I am asking)
^^^^^^^
GIMBLY...Is Monica's *other monkey*...
WG
^^^^^^^

Ok, is this directed at me? Have I now earned a new group name?

its all good. My bad. I took a comment out of context. Its hard in a
complex thread.
^^^^^^^
I understand JB..as I've used these words often..*It is the nature of the
beast*...The Beast being the form in which we use to communicate our
*opinions here*..at times it is hard for some,while others it comes easy.
Glad to hear you and yours are back home safe. The "father" of two of my
Grand Children is from down where you were. He does not have a hand in their
raising and gives nothing to their Mother,my Daughter..she is doing
everything with out him. He *used* her to get into this *country* and when
he felt it was safe..walked away..some people have no morals,no matter where
they live.

WG

^^^^^^^

[oldwifetale]

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective.

Why don't you venture across the atlantic and i'll show you what a
*real* bitch-slap is. :) Sound like fun?

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk
The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!)  that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower.

Hmmm... that hasn't been *my* experience at Pine Ridge.
Ever been there? Ever even been in America?
Or are you just spouting your hallucinogenic nonsense again?


I really don't know why you

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

Amdo, go take some more x-stacy, eat a banana, and play with your
flying monkeys. And btw - when you used the word 'skanking' in regard
to the wicked witch of the west here (in your other post), i 'bout
spit out my tea, hahaha. Leave it to the United Kingdom boy to say it
like it is. :) Now i need a smoke - where's my 'fags'? Or should i go
to the 'loo' first? Geez, decisions, decisions.... hell, i'll just do
both, it's a free country.

[Vladimir]

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk
the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups

Remind Vladimir of teachings in Mosque where imams brainwash sheep to
believe that all non-Islamic pipples must be converted, enslaved, or
destroyed lest they oppress true believers.

Also remind Vladimir of ghetto aunties and ghetto grannies telling
little ones that all their troubles are someone else's fault.

Would seem that there are victim plantations throughout world, da?

[~American Indian~]

Post by g***@yahoo.co.uk

Ms Kebab is not a FBI agent as such - just a good 'ole american dork
who reacts very badly, persistently, relentlessly and scurrelously,
with that clever little brainbox of hers ticking away to avoid having
to accept the reality of America werrica (sulk)

Aaaw, ain't that cute? You *conjured up* something to whyme with
amewica.

This bitch will never get off until shes slapped down by the native
women in a face to face setting...and this highlights is the problem
with the internet..that people can 'hide' from facing the huge
consciousness/reality change from going from mainstream american world
to tribal world (for example), and endless snipe and disrupt from
their unreconstructed perspective. The fact is Donna, (and the old
Hope by the way!) that in any real traditionals real world setting,
if you continued to express ego whilst the elders were teaching
something as crucial as the pine ridge cover ups for example you would
either be physically restrained or expelled - but here of course you
can (endlessless) channel scumabusepower. I really don't know why you
just don't get off and piss off - I mean this forum is actually for
natives, you are not a native so why bother? I can see why Monica
thinks your official FBI payroll - and thats why you'll be slapped up
in a real world setting. Get off cunt or fuck off type thing. You're
an egoising american idiot Donna, not an FBI agent, just an american
prick.

^^^^^^^

*YOU* GOT A PROBLEM FINDING YOUR KAZOO...?
Perhaps your *head* is shoved to far up inside it..!!!

WG

^^^^^^^